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    • #924
      Art
      Moderator

      As a heads up, I understand that there are rumours that new Group C/IMSA cars will come with a new 23,000 motor. Buyer beware – these motors are ineligible for R32 use in our Group C/IMSA class… again, we will need to wait and see but until then assume they will not be eligible… :negative:

    • #925
      Bob Chapman
      Member

      From Maurizio

       

      Slot.it

      Just pulled this off Slot Forum, but still a bit questionable.

      Today, 12:48 PM

       

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      Except for the endbell, now moulded in one single piece vs the previous two pieces unit, the motor is exactly the same as before. Same magnets, case, winding, armature, carbons.

      It must be considered that the previous orange-ish endbell motor was wrongly specified at 21.5K, whereas it was 23K instead.

       

      The improvement should be a more uniform production, not a change in performance, so I think the old orange endbells V12/3 and the new V12/4 should be allowed to race together.

      We’ve made several tests and there is no significant performance change.

       

      The Skoal Bandit car will still have the V12/3 motor, the Camel 962 the new one.

       

      I think this will need confirming by our usual test methods none the less.

      Bob

       

       

    • #926
      Anonymous

      Had to mess with a good thing didn’t they.

      The Slot.It Orange endbell was quite possibly the 2nd most common motor in the hobby (modern day) next to the Mabuchi FC-130

      I’ll bet most slot car clubs on the planet run some sort of hybrid of Stock Group C.

      Pitty

    • #927
      Art
      Moderator

      So Slot.It comes out with a motor that they rate at 25k, then 21,5k, with several incarnations which are faster or slower, now they say the 23k motor is the same as the rest – I remain terribly sorry if I am sceptical regarding their claim since we all know that even just with the orange endbell there were significant variances… it is a smart marketing ploy to make each incarnation a little faster to prompt sales… as Asia sang – ‘only time will tell’…

    • #928
      Anonymous

      A retail sales ploy you say………. I concur 😉

      Both of the new offings are in Tobacco Company liveries. That usually makes them an instant buy for me as well.

      I have both of these currently as hand painted models so I’ll be passing on purchasing these…………. at least for now …………. LOL

      My slot car addiction is nearly as bad as my tobacco addiction :wacko:

    • #933
      JohnnySlots
      Member

      Here’s the link to the Slot.it 2016 parts catelogue. Motors are about halfway through and the new motor is listed like a fox among the chickens. The orange endbell is officially rated at 21,500 while this new motor is listed at 23,000. Same torque.

      http://www.slot.it/Download/BROCHURE/Spare_Parts_2016_Low.pdf

      I have read a Mauricio post somewhere that states the new motor offers no perfomance advantage over the old as the orange really was a 23,000 rpm motor. Would be nice though if he released an official statement.

    • #934
      JohnnySlots
      Member
    • #946
      JohnnySlots
      Member

      So, here’s the scoop from Slot.it. I emailed this to the man himself through Facebook.

      “Maurizio, have you released an official statement about the new MX16 motor that will replace the orange endbell in Group C cars? I know there are a lot of questions about the performance of the engine in relation to the orange motor, and why this is being done. I also know that a lot of people that race stock Group C classes may not allow it.”

      Here is his response to me.

      “Except for the endbell, now moulded in one single piece vs the previous two pieces unit, the motor is exactly the same as before. Same magnets, case, winding, armature, carbons. It must be considered that the previous orange-ish endbell motor was wrongly specified at 21.5K, whereas it was 23K instead. The improvement should be a more uniform production, not a change in performance, so I think the old orange endbells V12/3 and the new V12/4 should be allowed to race together. We’ve made several tests and there is no significant performance change. The Skoal Bandit car will still have the V12/3 motor, the Camel 962 the new one. The published RPM vs. real RPM skew dates back a few years ago, when the motor maker changed the shape (and metal) of the case, without letting us know. Performance increased to 23K, but we didn’t change the specs.”

    • #956
      Art
      Moderator

      Well, as is the case with any ‘new’ part introduced into one of our ‘stock’ classes we will follow common sense and just wait and see, but as always until it is tested (and the consensus is that it IS the same and therefore eligible) it will not be allowed. :negative:  Since the new motors will be easily identifiable this should be easy for everyone to follow for now. Please direct any frustration towards the manufacturers  :mail: and not those that try to ensure the playing field remains level. :wacko:

    • #1205
      Bob Chapman
      Member

      Very frustrating as both Art and Kevin have pointed out. Nice new liveries with a questionable motor for our club. This is the problem with manufacturers changing things that really dont need to be changed mid stream in a class. I can see now why so far we have been lucky with our Sideways Grp 5 class a winning combination, and then they change the motor carrier to eliminate the rear hop we eliminated by other means.

      Just once I would like to see a manufacturer leave things alone. Sure offer aftermarket parts for upgrades, but why F up a good thing.

      Open class it dosent matter, but with our stock Grp C IMSA, Everyone has the orange endbell, will these now be obsolete and sit on the shelf or will we have to remotor the new ones to fit our rules. It is becoming a game of deep pockets just to maintain a standard but have a new livery. I am with KK they can sit until they are approved by the club. So the new guy co es along , buys a new car like the Camel only to find out he cant race it with the new motor now has to buy an old orange endbell on top of the price of the car.

      I also agree that I thinkmit is a marketing ploy by getting a faster motor , and not being clear about the performance and then reasserting the orange endbellmis a 23 not a 21.5 .

      So if I am correct in assuming the 21.5 motor which was supposed to be run with the lrange endbell motors, some were at a disadvantage of 1500 rpm.

      Dosent sound like much, but consider our BWA at 15k running against a look alike at 16.5 k

      Big difference.

      Rant over

    • #1222
      Art
      Moderator

      I feel your frustration Bob.

      However every run of any motor is different – and ‘slot.it’ isn’t big enough to be an exception. In fact, their success is their demise since they did not plan well enough to buy the amount of motors to put into all of their production cars in the foreseeable future and success of the company.

      You can thank both China and the micro economics of toy cars which not even Slot.it could overcome… if they had just ordered 2.4m orange endbell motors… but had they then they would be bankrupt… and so the circle continues…

      I have to laugh – those like me will be around forever… but slot.it – believe it or not – will not be… …at least not in the same corporate format…

      Cheers! Art :good:

       

    • #1330
      JohnnySlots
      Member

      I tried to download the photo. Guess it was too large.Here's the new motor. Hardly disinguishable from the old!

       

      • This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by JohnnySlots.
    • #1332
      Bob Chapman
      Member

      So again it happens, this time with the so called Piranha Motor Black end bell. As rated to compete at 21.5 with the slot it and Mr Slot Car.

      So today or yesterday word hits the retail market that the new run of these motors are produced with a white end bell, but are exactly the same specs.  I know we dont use these in a spec class, but some groups do. WILL THEY FIND OUT THAT THE NEW WHITE END BELL ACTUALLY IS 23 K AND NOT 21.5 DOWN THE ROAD.

       

      Surely a company ordering these motors can stipulate the endbell colorwith the other specs.  All we as consumers want is a consistentcy to help achieve parity .

      Ah crap there I go again, must be the pneumonia making me delirious lmao

       

    • #1333
      Art
      Moderator

      The only thing that is certain is change itself.
      The lesson that I learned from a seasoned slot car veteran many moons ago was to buy whatever you can afford while it is still available. Among other things, that person has the largest stockpile of the old Ortmann tires made from a chemical formula no longer available.
      The other wrinkle as Bob points out is that motor ratings and specs are all bullshit, official company line or just internet based. You need to test the motor (in a car where torque can be seen – not just a dyno) yourself to see. Just like the Jackrabbit Jr. motor which is rated at 14.4k but in a car is more than half a second quicker per lap than any other ‘slow’ motor car rated the same… at least the Jackrabbit has a painted and labelled can – not like the newer Flyslot trucks that have no markings to distinguish them from their faster brothers…
      And so we need a plan for the ‘stock’ motor classes and the slow motor classes. Unfortunately there is nothing we can do to stop this with the ‘stock’ motor classes. We also saw this with the NC1. We saw this with the Vanski. Fool me once, fool me twice… fool me three times… Did anyone learn their lesson yet? The answer for nearly everyone in this group is a resounding NO! 😥

    • #1334
      Art
      Moderator

      Bob, BTW, I tested the Piranha black endbell motor and it is a piece of shit compared to the slot.it orange… but exceeds the performance of a stock 18/19k scaley/old fly – so in the box they sit now…
      BTW2, the SRC motors are a little hotter than the stock scaley/old fly – just sayin… but because those motors all look the same and none are labelled who would know?

    • #1338
      Bob Chapman
      Member

      Yep, that really is the issue isn’t it. Trying to find something always available and consistent for spec motor classes. For open motor , no big deal, but why not give us a good continual, supply of 2 motors we can use in slow motor class , and a consistent motor for mixed classes, ie. Classic Lemans .

      im going back to bed my head hurts

       

      If god wanted me to have a headache, he wouldnt have invented helmets for banging your head against the wall

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